John Venema

announcement
PayPal restriction - the reason why

178 posts in this topic

ID: 2   Posted (edited)

 

Thank you. Now I get it.

 

Best of luck getting this resolved.  I would be happy to write a scathing email or two or twelve to PP if that would help (probably it would not).

 

Edited by Ripcord
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Thank you for putting it straight, as the heat has been rising on the forum.

 

This is the kind of story that courses the Internet. The "other side" of PayPal is indeed wrought with such issues. These things go back to the very early days of PayPal, with eBay...

 

I knew a number of people selling through eBay who had real issues with PayPal closing them out while the account was under review. It seems they are still having trouble getting to grips with it.

 

Here's hoping you can resolve this issue to everyone's benefit. As a customer, it would be such a shame to see such a popular method of payment no longer available for ever.

 

Andrew

 

 

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John,

Has PP given you a time frame as to resolution on this matter?  Sometimes they are too over protective, but they are still the best protective layer between you and you credit cards on the net.  Thank's for the heads up, and hopefully this will be all fixed before you next release :) 

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Each call I make I am told 48 hours. But that was a week ago :)

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Good luck with the negotiations. Thank you for coming on to the forum and delivering an open statement. This is really appreciated :)

 

A

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Thank you for being open and frank.

I buy only using PayPal and i hope that they sort this out as soon as possible.

Best of luck

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I know many businesses this has happened to and frankly, I think this is so lame of paypal to continue like this.

 

I once had an issue where I sold a very expensive item. Paypal flagged it up as suspicious and froze my account whilst asking me to provide every documentation I could imagine. Took weeks of speaking to various people from some faraway call centre reading from a script with no resolution. They froze my funds for 180 days.

 

But to have this happen to a legitimate business and on many occasions, destroy peoples lives is beyond sad.

 

 

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My guess had been claims and disputes, but what you are describing really should have been resolved quickly - even this forum here already tells the whole story of ORBX growth and the ORBX Direct start.

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Thank you John,

 

I am very sorry that you have had to experience this "growing pain". I am relieved by you explanation and excited by your plans for the future. I wish you, your family and the entire Orbx team a happy holiday season and a prosperous 2017.

 

Greg

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Thank you very much for disclosing all this to us which is indeed all but usual but should remove any further doubts.

 

For the time being I decide to buy via CC, still in hope you will be able to resolve the issue as quickly as possible.

 

Kind regards, Michael

 

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Sadly as a merchant myself (unrelated to our hobby) my relationship with PayPal (and for that matter eBay) is fraught with the God-like attitude. Unlike myself Orbx has a very visible presence in the internet world and should not be subject to these disruptions. I am very confident that PayPal will see the light and restore your status. Good luck, you've worked hard to get here; don't let the bastards get you down! 

 

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PP and his rules, had to provide personal info when the amount got too high as well, provided it right away and as with you I didn't hear back untill I picked up the phone as my limitation started to annoy the hell out of me. It seems PP has a long way to go when it comes to customer support and being helpfull. Hope it gets sorted asap!

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Interesting insight JV gaves us. And although it is annoying for both sides (Orbx and its customers) it is quite clear what is behind this behaviour from PP:

- There opens a "new" shop

- suddenly it collects tons of money

As the the people at PP obviously have no clue about the background of Orbx, they are simply afraid that Orbx is a "bad" shop sending out no goods or garbage and as a result of this suddenly tons of people ask for a refund. That's why thy "limit" it, to see what happens. Only wondering why all these things are not checked upfront. My Bank wouldn't give me a million dallor credit without checking out my whole life.

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Please, can be be respectful to PP and not slander them in public, it won't help our case :)

 

To give them credit every person I have spoken to on the phone has been polite, professional and sympathetic to our plight. But they are just employees doing their job and my role is to try and escalate the review upwards to the decision makers. Wish me luck in that task!

 

P.S. If they do freeze the money for 180 days there is a chance we will be hesitant to provide a PP option again. Let's hope it does not come to that.

 

P.P.S Stripe offers the facility to store you CC securely on their server and we just add a "Buy Now" Stripe button to our cart. We are investigating adding this to OrbxDirect. This will save a lot of time at check out where it's a single button press instead of finding your CC details each time. Remember, Orbx does NOT store your CC details on our servers. If we were hacked all they would find are records of your licenses which has no value to a hacker unless he is the world's biggest FS addon collector :lol:

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ID: 16   Posted (edited)

JV,

Unfortunate troubles indeed and I do hope, for the sake of Orbx and the whole team, that this issue is resolved soon, never to rise again. Thank you for the explanation. It hopefully will sooth several ravaged soles who have attacked you rather savagely since the announcement. It is sad indeed that some prefer to lash out emotively as opposed to displaying a little faith in a company and its leadership which has consistently acted in the best interests of furthering this wonderful hobby and in providing the best customer support possible. 

To the whole Orbx Team: keep up the fantastic work, keep calm and enjoy the satisfaction that you gain from your efforts. Merry Christmas and I believe that we all will have a very Happy and exciting New Year.

Edited by paddler
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Hi

Yes, we need that  "Buy Now" Stripe button

 

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Hi, thanks for the update, we'll just have to use are CC's, until this is sorted!

 

Cheers,

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Good luck John... I hope you manage to get this resolved as quickly as possible.

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Write to the finance guy on the Daily Mail, he'll sort the buggers out! :D

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Good luck John. We used to be a merchant using paypal and had to prove our identity more than once over the years (god knows why - did they think we'd been replaced by aliens overnight?) and were frozen out a couple of times, so sympathy to you folks. As you say, it will probably get sorted in the end but it sucks up a whole bunch of time and effort dealing with it. Personally, I don't have a problem using a ccard on the net, but I understand the caution some folks feel.

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46 minutes ago, John Venema said:

Stripe offers the facility to store you CC securely on their server and we just add a "Buy Now" Stripe button to our cart. We are investigating adding this to OrbxDirect. This will save a lot of time at check out where it's a single button press instead of finding your CC details each time. Remember, Orbx does NOT store your CC details on our servers. If we were hacked all they would find are records of your licenses which has no value to a hacker unless he is the world's biggest FS addon collector :lol:

 

I read this yesterday, and initially I thought that might be part of the plan.  I would try this.  Would still prefer PP, as it is the devil with which I am most familiar.  And anyway you need to get your funds released, but I am sure that will happen soon enough.

 

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That they want to protect themselves against any civil or penal (money laundering) liabilities is justified but why don't they clearly inform their smaller vendor clients upfront and set up a quick procedure in case of rapidly increasing sales ? This freezing business is not exactly new, it has been going on for quite a long time.  Another easy explanation (more mundane but purely conjectural of course :)) comes to mind.

 

For the consumers, PP is a good protection when buying on auction sites or from uncertain outfits. But a credit card is all you need IMHO when you buy from larger vendors which are not less secure than PP. If your bank does its job (you pay fees for that remember)  they will assist you in case of trouble.  Now I know from experience that in some countries (US and Germany for instance) some banks make it difficult. For years the expat that I was couldn't buy at  German Simmarket with my visa when I was outside of my country ! My money went to other shops... 

 

Anyway good luck to OrbX, 180 days can be a long time to wait when you need your money.

 

Thank you for your good wishes and happy holidays to all.

 

 

 

 

.

 

 

 

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Hello John V,

Thankyou for your explanation as also Alex Goff. It is a difficult job at the top launching new ventures is always fraught with potential unknown glitches. I do admire your tenacity to find the best solutions for your business model. I feel many times you and the team are treated with unfavourable contempt and vitriol, it saddens me to read posts where people can't see you are actually working very hard for the benefit of all and the ongoing wellbeing of market leading software company we enthusiastic customers have all grown to love.

 

Some words that I personally live by : "Never judge a man until you have walked a mile in his shoes".  Chin up its only a takeoff clearance, blueskies & calm winds await.

 

The way I read it you had no choice but to suspend PP trading, as they were withholding legitimate funds for sales of product rightfully belonging to the vendor (Orbx). They also likely already extracted the fee to act as intermediary for every item processed through PP thus far. Surely they must see that Orbx did not just arrive on the scene (yesterday) requiring stringent account limitations and balance checks.

 

I do wish you and the team a speedy resolution to your current dilemma with PP, I do hope they compensate you for the loss they may have created in terms of Orbx reputation and lost business as a result of PP's account limitation or unwillingness to release funds which rightfully belong to Orbx.

 

All my very best to you and all the team as you head into 2017.

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ID: 25   Posted (edited)

Thanks John, presumably PayPal has this restriction to prevent money laundering or other illicit affairs so as a principle I think it is very good. However, once they have reviewed the details provided by JV they will soon agree that ORBX is a business with a keen and solid group of customers and that all is good and right. I am hopeful, that we will get a fully working PayPal within the ORBX Direct store soon again.

 

Best of luck with the efforts to find a solution and thanks too for working on improvements to the current purchase options. 

Edited by BrianV
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I prefer PayPal for sure, but I understand the action you have taken.  I hope you get it resolved soon.

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Good Luck John, hope you manage to get this sorted without to much heart ache.

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Many thanks for the news update John.  Lifted my spirits, somewhat, that normal service could be resumed at some point.

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1 hour ago, John Venema said:

P.P.S Stripe offers the facility to store you CC securely on their server and we just add a "Buy Now" Stripe button to our cart. We are investigating adding this to OrbxDirect. This will save a lot of time at check out where it's a single button press instead of finding your CC details each time. Remember, Orbx does NOT store your CC details on our servers. If we were hacked all they would find are records of your licenses which has no value to a hacker unless he is the world's biggest FS addon collector :lol:

 

You'd probably win me for that. Make sure you don't run into issues with Amazon's 1-click intellectual property, though.

 

Kind regards, Michael

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Hi John thanks for the heads up much appreciated but god man you do like to tease us. New things happening in 2017, now every one will be trying to find out what it is and every ones brain will be in turbo mode. Derek.

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Tease? You ain't seen nothing yet haha! :lol:

 

 

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ID: 32   Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, John Venema said:

P.P.S Stripe offers the facility to store you CC securely on their server and we just add a "Buy Now" Stripe button to our cart. We are investigating adding this to OrbxDirect. This will save a lot of time at check out where it's a single button press instead of finding your CC details each time. Remember, Orbx does NOT store your CC details on our servers. If we were hacked all they would find are records of your licenses which has no value to a hacker unless he is the world's biggest FS addon collector :lol:

 

It'd also help if Stripe can also take care of the foreign currency exchange transaction itself (folding whatever the forex transaction fee is, into the final price in local currency). This way, the CC linked to the customer's Stripe account would get charged in the customer's local currency, avoiding any further forex transaction fees that might be imposed by the CC issuer.  Paypal already does this, this is the major reason I use Paypal (in addition to CC security).

 

This does imply that the final price (in local currency) would need to be displayed somewhere during the OrbxDirect/Stripe payment process.

 

I'd certainly be willing to consider opening a customer Stripe account myself, if it also provides a layer of CC security similar to what Paypal provides.

 

Edited by DesertPilot
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This is a situation I would not have thought of reading the words " PayPal are not satisfying our requirements ". I think the decision - as a temporary measure, provided the issues can be solved - was without alternative.

Now I understand there is a strong intention of restoring the paypal-option asap. I sincerely hope that happens sooner than later.

Good luck!

 

 

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51 minutes ago, DesertPilot said:

 

It'd also help if Stripe can also take care of the foreign currency exchange transaction itself (folding whatever the forex transaction fee is, into the final price in local currency). This way, the CC linked to the customer's Stripe account would get charged in the customer's local currency, avoiding any further forex transaction fees that might be imposed by the CC issuer.  Paypal already does this, this is the major reason I use Paypal (in addition to CC security).

 

This does imply that the final price (in local currency) would need to be displayed somewhere during the OrbxDirect/Stripe payment process.

 

I'd certainly be willing to consider opening a customer Stripe account myself, if it also provides a layer of CC security similar to what Paypal provides.

 

 

Stripe is the fastest growing payment gateway after PP and it is continually rated as the best alternative to PP.

 

We like it because there is no 'merchant account' to maintain; they simply act as the middle man and any refund claims are from the end-customer's bank which are passed onto us via Stripe. Any refund claim is always deducted from our daily balance until the claim is resolved. Fair for both sides. They also automatically pay us every weekday which is perfect for high volume online businesses like us.

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Hi

yes, I will use CC from now on and with that "Buy Now" Stripe button it will be so easy buying

 

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As an example of Paypal taking care of the currency conversion itself: I purchased the ENHF Hammerfest Airport via Paypal (just before Orbx had to disable Paypal). The cost was $32.95 AUD.  Paypal converted that to $25.33 USD, folding into that the forex transaction fee.  My CC was charged $25.33 USD (not $32.95 AUD). Clean and simple.

 

Once some years ago, I used my United States CC to purchase a meal at a Canadian restaurant (while traveling through Ontario). My CC issuer not only imposed a forex transaction fee, my issuer also treated this as a cash advance with finance charges accumulating from Day 1 of the purchase. Ouch.  That is what I do NOT want to happen with OrbxDirect transactions.  I'd rather all applicable foreign currency conversion fees be incorporated into one final price that I can view before completing the OrbxDirect transaction. Instead of finding additional fees on my CC statement up to a month later.

 

I do not have a clear answer yet on what will happen if I use my CC today at the OrbxDirect store--would my CC be directly charged in AUD?

 

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Thank you for the clarification. I hope this PP issue gets resolved soon.

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5 minutes ago, DesertPilot said:

As an example of Paypal taking care of the currency conversion itself: I purchased the ENHF Hammerfest Airport via Paypal (just before Orbx had to disable Paypal). The cost was $32.95 AUD.  Paypal converted that to $25.33 USD, folding into that the forex transaction fee.  My CC was charged $25.33 USD (not $32.95 AUD). Clean and simple.

 

Once some years ago, I used my United States CC to purchase a meal at a Canadian restaurant (while traveling through Ontario). My CC issuer not only imposed a forex transaction fee, my issuer also treated this as a cash advance with finance charges accumulating from Day 1 of the purchase. Ouch.  That is what I do NOT want to happen with OrbxDirect transactions.  I'd rather all applicable foreign currency conversion fees be incorporated into one final price that I can view before completing the OrbxDirect transaction. Instead of finding additional fees on my CC statement up to a month later.

 

I do not have a clear answer yet on what will happen if I use my CC today at the OrbxDirect store--would my CC be directly charged in AUD?

 

Precisely the reason I stay with PP. since I purchase thing all over the world . the currency conversion is easy peasy for me. hope this gets sorted and not Dump PayPal as a method of transactions for orbx products.

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ID: 39   Posted (edited)

Hey John,

 

I would want to suggest a few other payment methods, so people who do not own a credit card (like many Europeans, including me, since in Europe creditcards are not as common as it is in North America) , can still get their hands on your awesome products.

I understand this may take quite a while to implement, but if PayPal would come to the decision to block your business-related PP account for a longer period of time, as named earlier in this topic, these might be alternative methods that you might want to consider implementing.

 

A few to name:

 

Direct Debit.

This is a method where basically an order is sent to the bank to take money from somebody's bank account.

It is well known in countries with the PIN/TAN system, like Germany, Austria, the Netherlands , Belgium and Switzerland.

 

Bank Transfer.

This basically means that a customer has to log into their bank account, and manually transfer the money to the IBAN account of ORBX in this case.

If you would want to implement this option, it is obvious that the customer will only get his/her product when ORBX has received the full amount of money has been received.

 

Cash.

A simple thing: let the customer put cash in an envelope and let them send it to an  ORBX office where it can be received.

Again, the rule here would be that the customer will only get his/her product when ORBX has received the full amount of money has been received.

 

All three of the above options are used by simmarket, and to my personal great appreciation.

 

I hope this was to some help to you.

 

 

P.S.: I have all understanding for your issue with paypal. I hope it gets resolved, since it's quite frustrating that customers like me, who do not own a creditcard, can't get hold of your products :)

 

 

Edited by Raphael_679
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Great answer by JV, thankyou

Good luck resolving the issue, I'm sure there are many people here (me included) who would assist should you find any comment from customers to PP to be helpful..

 

On a practical note, if this isnt resolved shortly, would you consider extending the sale period for the benefit of those who clearly have an intention to buy but cant at the moment please? Cheers K

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